Hello, Sundar. Thanks for sitting with us.
Let’s start from the beginning. How did you get into science? Was there a specific instance that made you interested in the field?
I grew up in Madurai, Tamil Nadu, and I went for an undergrad in biotechnology at Anna University. I was just following my brother’s footsteps here. I was a bit clueless in my undergrad, and I didn’t know what to do. I was sort of moving towards joining a software company after my undergrad. But then I thought that I’d try out a little research project first and joined as a JRF in Sandhya Koushika’s lab at NCBS. The amazing scientific atmosphere at NCBS opened up the world of research for me and nudged me to a career in research. Post this, I applied for selected PhD programs in Europe and I landed up in a physics lab at the Max Planck Institute for Cell Biology and Genetics (MPI-CBG) in Dresden, Germany. Sandhya helped me here with this decision in understanding that collaborations between biologists and physicists are extremely important in bringing a new perspective to fundamental problems.
What was the focus of your PhD research?
I was looking at how the left and right sides are established in the worm, C. elegans, under Prof. Stephan Grill at MPI-CBG. If you look at our bodies, we have three body axes, right? The anterior-posterior, which is the head-tail axis, then the left-right axis, and finally, you have the front-back axis. These three axes are perpendicular to each other, and they are all established during early embryonic development. I was particularly interested in understanding how the left-right axis gets established. Intriguingly, what you define as left and right entirely depends on how you define where the anterior is, where the posterior is, and where the front and back are. For example, two people facing each other will have their left sides pointing in opposite directions. How then does a developing embryo always put the heart on the left, the liver on the right, and so on? For this to happen, the embryo needs to know where its left and right sides are, followed by building the two sides differently. Technically speaking, this translates to understanding how the symmetry is broken along the left-right axis. So, how does this worm break the symmetry during embryonic development to make something different on the left side of the body compared to its right side? The worm does not have a heart of course but it has other internal left-right asymmetries. We knew for a long time that this symmetry breaking happens at a very early stage during embryonic development, in fact, at the four to six-cell stage transition. So we looked carefully at these stages focusing on the cytoskeleton, and we discovered for the first time that the actomyosin cytoskeleton can exhibit chiral dynamics in vivo, meaning it basically twists itself as it flows from one side of the embryo to the other side, and that breaks the symmetry between the future left and right sides of the embryo. Dresden is a phenomenal place for doing science and I would say I matured as a scientist in Stephan’s lab. The wonderful interdisciplinary environment in MPI-CBG and particularly in Stephan’s lab, which had a mix of physicists and biologists, really allowed me to probe long-standing developmental problems from a physics perspective.
Did you continue the same research in your postdoc?
For my postdoc, I embraced this interdisciplinary approach further by investigating the role of tissue mechanics in driving bilateral tissues to form with the same shape and size in the lab of Prof. Andrew Oates at UCL, London, and EPFL, Lausanne. Externally, vertebrates are quite symmetric along the left-right axis. You take the muscle and the skeleton system, your arms, your feet, your ears, your eyes, and so on. How does this precision emerge during embryonic development? To answer this, I focussed on the precursors of the muscle and the skeletal system, which are called somites. When I joined Andy’s lab, they were leading the field in understanding how somites, also called segments, form along the body axis in zebrafish embryos. I used advanced microscopy techniques and developed several image analysis modules to show that somites often form asymmetrically with mild differences in size, shape, and position, however, the embryo corrects these errors over time leading to a symmetric body plan. We showed that symmetry is an emergent property during development and this is driven by mechanical forces in tissues. Andy is one of the most passionate scientists that I have come across and I have learned a lot about development in general from him. Both Andy and Stephan have always been strong proponents of exploratory science and this is something I hope to take forward in my own lab.
I joined TIFR a couple of years ago, and here I am combining my interdisciplinary expertise with developmental biology where, using zebrafish as a model system, we are working out mechanisms by which left-right symmetric tissues and patterns emerge at various stages of embryonic development.
How has your background in industrial biotechnology helped you with studying embryonic development?
In a way, I’m thankful for my B. Tech in Industrial Biotechnology because it gave me a fair bit of exposure to physics, mathematics, and programming, and this allowed me to do a lot more quantitative studies on various aspects of embryonic development, both during my PhD and postdoc and we continue this approach in my lab. The method of quantifying everything you observe in embryos is central to our work. To achieve this, we need tools for quantitative image analysis and often collaborate with computer scientists and physicists. Almost every project I’ve worked on has involved collaboration with theoretical physicists. Currently, I’m working with Vijay Krishnamurthy at ICTS, Saroj Kumar Nandi from TIFR-Hyderabad, and Marko Popovic from MPI-CBG, Germany. I’m also setting up a couple of more collaborations with theoretical physicists at IIT Bombay. These collaborations come naturally when you begin to quantify processes in embryonic development. Once numbers are introduced into your research, physics inevitably becomes a part of the process.
How long has it been since you joined TIFR? What has the experience been like so far, and what moments have stood out to you?
I joined in August 2022. It’s only been a little over two years, so it’s been a bit overwhelming, to be honest. I don’t think you’re ever fully prepared for this job. You can take courses in lab management during your postdoc, but until you’re actually in the role, you don’t get the full picture. It’s been intense and exciting at the same time. One of the biggest challenges is to set up the lab from scratch while simultaneously training students who are new to developmental biology. The first two years have been tough but also very rewarding. We’ve started to get some interesting results that we’re now taking forward, and seeing the progress in the students has been particularly satisfying. When students come into the lab, they often don’t have a clear understanding of the research we’re planning to look at. But now, two years down the line, these same students are challenging my ideas and contributing to rich, thorough scientific discussions. Seeing this growth is incredibly rewarding because I know they’re developing the skills to become independent and pursue successful careers in research or other fields. Watching that progress over these two years has been one of the most enjoyable parts of the experience.
Was there something that helped you when you were setting up your lab? And, what would be your insights to PIs who are just setting up their lab?
One thing that really helped me was talking to others who were also setting up their labs around the same time or a little earlier. For example, I’ve had detailed conversations with Rashmi Priya from The Francis Crick Institute, I stay in touch with Gautam Dey from EMBL, Tamal Das from TIFR Hyderabad, and other PIs here. In our department, we also have three new faculty members, and I regularly connect with them as well. These discussions helped me understand that certain challenges are inevitable, and patience is key—you learn to navigate issues as they arise. For anyone reading this interview, I’d say: don’t hesitate to reach out and ask for help. Many people are willing to support and mentor you, so you have a smooth transition. That’s one thing. The other thing is investing time and effort into training your first students. These initial students will eventually train the next set, and if you want the same rigor and dedication to continue, it’s crucial to build a strong foundation with them. Over time, they’ll grow into leaders themselves, which is again, incredibly satisfying to witness. Plus, it ensures the lab maintains its momentum.
You mentioned how in your undergrad, you did not have any exposure to research. What role do you think scientific societies have in increasing exposure to research among students?
That’s an interesting question. India is a vast country, and, in general, research in universities and colleges is almost non-existent. Societies like the InSDB and the Indian Biophysical Society, which I’m also part of, play an important role. The first step that societies can take is to connect with local colleges and universities through workshops. For example, at a recent IBS meeting, I conducted a workshop on basic image analysis. Many students who attended had little to no exposure to research, so it was essential to make the workshop accessible. Since this was an image analysis workshop, we conducted it online, so that students from all over the country could participate without needing to travel. It helped open their eyes to what research really is. The first step is to introduce students to the idea of research—of looking into the unknown and figuring out things no one has studied before. This catches the interest of some of the students, and they end up doing internships or projects. We may not inspire 100% of the students, but if we reach even 10-15%, that’s already a great start. Societies play a big role in this effort. They’re essential in training students, conducting workshops, and providing scholarships and travel grants. All of these initiatives, over time, contribute to establishing a stronger scientific environment.
To wrap up, what is something that you do outside of work that keeps you going and that helps you balance work?
I used to do a lot of sports – I used to play ultimate frisbee in a local club in Europe as well as football and rock climbing. I have yet to restart any of these since I came to Mumbai apart from jogging that I do a couple of times a week. Sports is my general getaway outside of the lab. In the TIFR campus, I am slowly getting into playing frisbee and cricket but not so regularly yet.
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You can connect with Sundar here.
